September 15, 2021
A World Safe for Democracy
John Ikenberry
Albert G. Milbank Professor of Politics and International Affairs,
Princeton University
George Bustin, Introducer, and John Ikenberry
Minutes of the Second Meeting of the 80th Year
President Steve Schreiber called the meeting to order. Christine Danser read the minutes from the September 8, 2021 meeting. Guests (and their hosts) included Edward Martinsen (John Cotton), Scott Magargee (Al Kaemmerlen), Kathy Ales (Nancy Becker) and Ricardo Fernandez de Quincoces (Christine Danser).
President Schreiber announced that current $50 dues should be sent to Treasurer Miquelon. Those members who have not paid by October 15th will incur a late fee of $25. He also reported on an Old Guard brunch at Springdale Golf Course which was very successful and suggested we may repeat this event later in the year.
Nominations of member prospects and their proposers included Ricardo Fernandez de Quincoces (Christine Danser) and Kathy Ales (Nancy Becker).
The September 22nd meeting will feature Ira Rosen, long time CBS Producer of 60 Minutes and author of “Ticking Clock.” The meeting will be held on Zoom.
144 attended this meeting via Zoom.
George Bustin introduced the 2,000th speaker, John Ikenberry, Princeton University Albert G. Milbank Professor of Politics and International Affairs.
G. John Ikenberry, speaking about his most recent book, A World Safe for Democracy: Liberal Nationalism and the Crises of Global Order, said it all began with a 2016 series of lectures at the University of Virginia, right after the 2016 election. “The audience was very subdued,” he said. Clearly the U.S. was in unique, uncharted territory, going through momentous transformation where the liberal international order was breaking down. “Something was wrong. Something had to be changed. We had to ask big questions in this world historical moment.”
What is the nature of international order?
Can Liberal Democracy make a comeback?
Can Capitalism and Democracy be brought back in balance?
Can Liberal Internationalism continue as a way of thinking and acting in the world?
What is the future of Liberal Internationalism?
On what ground can Liberal Internationalism plant its flag?
Ikenberry was deeply influenced by a book by Ira Katznelson where he reported on Liberal Democrats in post-1945 U.S., who were watching the world they had grown up in be thrown into upheaval with the depression, WW II, the Atom Bomb, the Holocaust, totalitarianism, and fascism. Liberal Democrats had picked up the pieces, despite this. Could they do it again?
Ikenberry had three goals in writing his book:
To contrast today’s Realists with Liberal Internationalists, he used an interesting metaphor. The Realists view the world as a series of billiard balls being batted around, while the Liberal Internationalists view the world as a series of fragile eggs and see their responsibility to build a kind of egg carton to protect those eggs. The Liberal Internationalists today see the fragility of current democracies facing issues of Sovereignty vs. Independence, Individuality vs. Collectivity and believe we must balance our values and give some things up to get other things, recognizing that there are “tragic tradeoffs.”
Ikenberry highlighted some key factors in today’s world. 1) Trade and openness, properly managed, is beneficial, creating mutually cooperative states in an open system. 2) Rules and institutions can facilitate multi-lateral cooperation. 3) Liberal Democracies have a unique set of values and interests that encourage cooperation. 4) Liberal Internationalism has a conviction that we live in a period of rising interdependence spanning economics, security, political climate, and environmental issues.
Today Liberal Democracy is facing troubled times. Not only have Centrists taken pronounced hits, but three setbacks have made Liberal Democracy less robust in the U.S. and other peer countries: 1) The Iraq War with its aura of militaristic domination and unilateral deployment of force; 2) Rising poverty after 2008 where Democratic Liberalism was seen more as an opportunity for bankers to do deals; 3) The “Liberal Bet” that China could be welcomed into the international order and into a new relationship with the international system. But China has, instead, become an out-and-out rival.
Ikenberry said we have to acknowledge what has worked since WW II, what Liberal Internationalists can build upon to make things work again: 1) Supporting and rebuilding Japan and Germany; 2) Creating frameworks for countries that are part of the world order; 3) Creating the G7 and the WTO; 4) Robust international trade; and 5) Welcoming new countries in South America, North and Southeast Asia, Eastern Europe that saw the liberal order as a real possibility.
Liberal Democracies also have to acknowledge what went wrong in those years. Ikenberry postulates that the Liberal Order, which the U.S. tied itself to, was not a global order. It was located inside the bipolar system during the Cold War. It was a kind of club. If you belonged to the club, the Logic of Conditionality reigned. There was a price to pay and there were significant benefits. But it wasn’t worldwide. It wasn’t global. With the end of the Cold War, the reason for existence diminished. The need for a Mutual Aid Society diminished.
Today, the Liberal Order has become a kind of shopping mall. Cherry pick those items you like. Ignore those you don’t. This is precisely what China is doing today.
If we want to restore the old order, that club character has to be rebuilt. But we have a new generation and new players. We must build a new coalition acknowledging a more contested stage where Pluralism reigns. Liberals have to concede high ground while still protecting established standards. And they have to speak out when others do things they disagree with. This is a good fight to fight, concluded Ikenberry, not through military means, but through showing that Liberal Democracy really works.
Respectfully submitted,
Julie Denny
President Schreiber announced that current $50 dues should be sent to Treasurer Miquelon. Those members who have not paid by October 15th will incur a late fee of $25. He also reported on an Old Guard brunch at Springdale Golf Course which was very successful and suggested we may repeat this event later in the year.
Nominations of member prospects and their proposers included Ricardo Fernandez de Quincoces (Christine Danser) and Kathy Ales (Nancy Becker).
The September 22nd meeting will feature Ira Rosen, long time CBS Producer of 60 Minutes and author of “Ticking Clock.” The meeting will be held on Zoom.
144 attended this meeting via Zoom.
George Bustin introduced the 2,000th speaker, John Ikenberry, Princeton University Albert G. Milbank Professor of Politics and International Affairs.
G. John Ikenberry, speaking about his most recent book, A World Safe for Democracy: Liberal Nationalism and the Crises of Global Order, said it all began with a 2016 series of lectures at the University of Virginia, right after the 2016 election. “The audience was very subdued,” he said. Clearly the U.S. was in unique, uncharted territory, going through momentous transformation where the liberal international order was breaking down. “Something was wrong. Something had to be changed. We had to ask big questions in this world historical moment.”
What is the nature of international order?
Can Liberal Democracy make a comeback?
Can Capitalism and Democracy be brought back in balance?
Can Liberal Internationalism continue as a way of thinking and acting in the world?
What is the future of Liberal Internationalism?
On what ground can Liberal Internationalism plant its flag?
Ikenberry was deeply influenced by a book by Ira Katznelson where he reported on Liberal Democrats in post-1945 U.S., who were watching the world they had grown up in be thrown into upheaval with the depression, WW II, the Atom Bomb, the Holocaust, totalitarianism, and fascism. Liberal Democrats had picked up the pieces, despite this. Could they do it again?
Ikenberry had three goals in writing his book:
- He wanted to examine big ideas, treating the issues with intentional gravitas.
- He wanted to be honest about the failures and accomplishments of Liberal Democracy.
- He wanted to attempt to point a way forward. Where can International Liberalism go? What can it do to provide ideas of reorganization when the direction of Liberal Politics is very much up in the air?
To contrast today’s Realists with Liberal Internationalists, he used an interesting metaphor. The Realists view the world as a series of billiard balls being batted around, while the Liberal Internationalists view the world as a series of fragile eggs and see their responsibility to build a kind of egg carton to protect those eggs. The Liberal Internationalists today see the fragility of current democracies facing issues of Sovereignty vs. Independence, Individuality vs. Collectivity and believe we must balance our values and give some things up to get other things, recognizing that there are “tragic tradeoffs.”
Ikenberry highlighted some key factors in today’s world. 1) Trade and openness, properly managed, is beneficial, creating mutually cooperative states in an open system. 2) Rules and institutions can facilitate multi-lateral cooperation. 3) Liberal Democracies have a unique set of values and interests that encourage cooperation. 4) Liberal Internationalism has a conviction that we live in a period of rising interdependence spanning economics, security, political climate, and environmental issues.
Today Liberal Democracy is facing troubled times. Not only have Centrists taken pronounced hits, but three setbacks have made Liberal Democracy less robust in the U.S. and other peer countries: 1) The Iraq War with its aura of militaristic domination and unilateral deployment of force; 2) Rising poverty after 2008 where Democratic Liberalism was seen more as an opportunity for bankers to do deals; 3) The “Liberal Bet” that China could be welcomed into the international order and into a new relationship with the international system. But China has, instead, become an out-and-out rival.
Ikenberry said we have to acknowledge what has worked since WW II, what Liberal Internationalists can build upon to make things work again: 1) Supporting and rebuilding Japan and Germany; 2) Creating frameworks for countries that are part of the world order; 3) Creating the G7 and the WTO; 4) Robust international trade; and 5) Welcoming new countries in South America, North and Southeast Asia, Eastern Europe that saw the liberal order as a real possibility.
Liberal Democracies also have to acknowledge what went wrong in those years. Ikenberry postulates that the Liberal Order, which the U.S. tied itself to, was not a global order. It was located inside the bipolar system during the Cold War. It was a kind of club. If you belonged to the club, the Logic of Conditionality reigned. There was a price to pay and there were significant benefits. But it wasn’t worldwide. It wasn’t global. With the end of the Cold War, the reason for existence diminished. The need for a Mutual Aid Society diminished.
Today, the Liberal Order has become a kind of shopping mall. Cherry pick those items you like. Ignore those you don’t. This is precisely what China is doing today.
If we want to restore the old order, that club character has to be rebuilt. But we have a new generation and new players. We must build a new coalition acknowledging a more contested stage where Pluralism reigns. Liberals have to concede high ground while still protecting established standards. And they have to speak out when others do things they disagree with. This is a good fight to fight, concluded Ikenberry, not through military means, but through showing that Liberal Democracy really works.
Respectfully submitted,
Julie Denny